Can Otter and ChatGPT produce a good-enough account of a podcast interview? – Media Nation

This post will no doubt have limited appeal, but a few readers might find it interesting. I’ve been thinking about how to produce summaries and news stories based on the podcast that Ellen Clegg and I host, “What Works: The Future of Local News.” The best way would be to pay a student to write it up. But is it also a task that could be turned over to AI?

Purely as an experiment, I took our most recent podcast — an interview with Scott Brodbeck, founder and CEO of Local News Now, in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C. — and turned it over to the robots.

I started by downloading the audio and feeding it into Otter, a web-based transcription service that uses AI to guess at what the speaker might actually be saying. Once I had a transcript, I took a part of it — our conversation with Brodbeck, eliminating the introduction and other features — and fed it into ChatGPT twice, once asking it to produce a 600-word summary and then again to produce a 600-word news story. Important caveat: I did very little to clean up the transcript and did not edit what ChatGPT spit out.

The results were pretty good. I’m guessing it would have been better if I had been using a paid version of ChatGPT, but that would require, you know, money. I’d say that what AI produced would be publishable if some human-powered editing were employed to fix it up. Anyway, here are the results.

The transcript

Q: Scott, so many of the projects that we have looked at are nonprofit, and that trend seems to be accelerating. In fact, we love nonprofit news, but we also worry that there are limits to how much community journalism can be supported by philanthropy. So your project is for profit. How have you made that work? Dan, do you think for profit? Digital only, local news can thrive in other parts of the country as well.

A: I’m agnostic in terms of the future of both business models. I think there are nonprofits doing absolutely fantastic work. I think there are for profits that are doing great work in serving their communities. It is largely a business model distinction, and the thing that the nonprofit lets you do is raise some of that those larger philanthropic dollars or go after large donors in a community block club Chicago is one of the local operations that I respect the most. They’re amazing. The way they do their fundraising and the editorial output and how they serve their readers, absolutely amazing, and that works for them. But if I were to take the same model and try to apply it in Arlington, I don’t necessarily think it would work. It’s a smaller community. The donors who might get excited about serving Chicago, as you know, a city might. There’s just going to be a lot fewer of them, if I’m just talking about Arlington County, here, outside of DC. So for us, the for profit works we’ve had been fortunate to get lots of advertising support from local businesses. We do have some memberships, but it’s less than 10% of our revenue, maybe even less than 5% even with a recent influx when we put out the call. It’s meaningful, but it’s far from the main source of support for. Business model, and that’s what works here each community. What I’ve learned over time, because I’ve looked at potentially expanding to other other areas in years past, for the record, we are pretty firmly ensconced here in the DC area for now, but when I’ve looked at that the difference in each community and just the dynamics, and are you going to get support from advertisers? Are you going to get support from donors or philanthropy. It’s different. This is going back to local. Doesn’t scale. It’s very hard to take what works in one area and just clone, stamp it and apply it somewhere else. That’s a long way of saying that. I think both of these types of models are going to going to coexist, and they’re going to do there’s probably advantages and disadvantages, but as long as you’re serving your readers and as long as you have a viable business or a viable organization in terms of your financials, I think that’s great. I think all should be supported all the above.

Q: When we had Howard Owens of the Batavian on the podcast, he told us that he thinks for profits can actually act more independently than nonprofits, because it’s less harmful to offend one advertiser out of many than to offend one major funder who might be crucial to the whole enterprise. Do you agree with his take?

A: You know, I do, and it’s, I think it’s more of a question of revenue diversification for us. No one advertiser has more than 1% of our revenue as a result. I that’s not something I have to care about. Is what a specific advertiser thinks of a specific, you know, type of coverage we’re doing. We just, we call our own shots and approach, you know, our news coverage the way we we want to do it, without regard of what anybody external thinks. That’s the way to go here. That’s the way you serve readers, is by being independent and being a authentic voice for the community, and not being beholden to what a, you know, specific large donor thinks. Now on the nonprofit side, you know, if they’re relatively, you know, well diversified in terms of no one philanthropy or no one large donor holds too much sway, then I very much think they could be independent. But you know, if there is a situation where a particular nonprofit has a dependency on a single source, you know, I do think that calls into question, to what degree is that affecting editorial judgment? You know, not necessarily a bad thing, but I do think that, you know, you can make ask some questions there about how that’s affecting things.

Q: Scott, I’m looking at your video feed, and that is one of the most impressive mics I’ve ever seen in my life. And it leads me to think that there must be some multimedia aspects to what you’re doing that I’m not aware of. So could you talk about that a little bit?

A: We’ve tried some podcasts here and there. Over the years, there have been two main attempts at making it work. And you know, I think what we’ve found is that for us, what we have done in the past, or newsmaker interviews. We’ve also done a just kind of news discussion amongst some of our journalists, and we found an audience, but it wasn’t a it wasn’t a large audience in relation to our overall readership on the site. You know one thing about local is, especially when you’re online, only is, you are limited. You are limited in what you can do and what your resources are, and you know how much time you can spend on things. And we just ended up, after the last attempt, sunsetted the podcast. Now I the feeds are live. We could bring it back, but in the end, I decided to that we should prioritize reporting, you know, and telling stories that are of relevance to the community. So I still like multimedia. We’re going to try we’re going to be trying some stuff. We’ve been trying some stuff on social media, multimedia wise, we are going to be trying some new things, hopefully in the months to come. I do think that experimentation is important. Try things, see what works, but also don’t be afraid to make the decision if it’s not working, to pull back on it and reprioritize.

Q: Now in looking at one of your sites, ARL, now I see a pretty eclectic mix of pose it’s laid out like an old school blog in reverse chronological order. When I was looking the other day, I saw a restaurant opening an update on towing regulations, a morning Notes feature that aggregates content from other sites, some sponsored content police news and a high school football game. So what makes a local news now? Story are you are you seeking to be the news source of record in the towns that you’re in, or are you a supplement to something else?

A: I think we are. I think we are the most comprehensive local news outlets for each of the communities we serve here in Northern Virginia, and that is certainly the goal within the bounds of the resource. As we have available to us at this point, we have a newsroom of nine in the office behind me. We have about four people who work three days a week, but everybody else is remote. So newsroom is taken as a more conceptual term here. But yeah, we so it’s essentially about three people per community, and we are able to do a lot of coverage because we are able to focus, you know, our energy on reporting, and we don’t have to lay out a paper. We have a lot of automations on the back end of our of our systems where, you know, for social media, the social media posts go out automatically. Nobody has to do that. The newsletter goes out automatically. And so our reporters and editors are able to focus on just reporting the news, breaking stories you know that are of relevance to people in our community, doing the kind of service journalism around everything from what restaurant is opening down the street to, you know, where can I go and buy Christmas trees this year? We try to do everything that anybody in the community might want to know about, or at least, you know, a critical mass of people in the community might want to know about. And this approach, where you kind of mix some of the hard news, the government reporting, the elections, with what some might see as softer news. You know, local business, restaurant openings, development is in there somewhere, policing, public safety. This approach, I see it more and more working in different communities. You know, rough draft Atlanta, community impact in Texas, a number of online those are all kind of digital. You have the paper and the website. I kind of consider them peers and like minded in terms of the approach of coverage to coverage. And you see it elsewhere, with online only outlets. You know, it’s not the only model out there, but for serving a community like ours, which our communities are essentially sub markets of the DC metro area, I think it works pretty well.

Q: Your towns are pretty large, and yet, even so, I have to say three people per community sounds like a luxury in this day.

A: And we achieved this level of staffing thanks to an acquisition. We just acquired the Gazette leader, which was the weekly newspaper serving Arlington County and Fairfax County. So I before, I referenced a newspaper that was only going to the the more well, to do parts of town, and that was the sun Gazette, which was later supplanted by the Gazette leader. We were able to acquire it and the core news team of a news editor and a sports editor, which has really enhanced our coverage since that acquisition. This has been a dream to get to this level. And I do think three people, while by newsrooms, of your standards, might not seem like a lot for a place that would otherwise be served by, you know, a weekly paper. I think we are able to have a lot of impact locally and do a lot of really great reporting and telling stories that would otherwise go untold.

Q: Well, you jumped the gun on the GazetteLeader. So let me ask you about that. Back in September, you acquired a print newspaper, converted it to digital only and said you would be expanding coverage. In fact, you quoted me when I was looking at your website, I did not see the GazetteLeader listed as one of your offerings.

A: What’s going on with that is the print paper has gotten more expensive to print and produce and to distribute, rather at the same time, there’s been softening of demand for print advertising, as I understand it now, it still works in many communities, but for whatever reason, it wasn’t working here. So as a result, this was not a we just acquired the assets, the digital assets, of the Z leader, and we’re able to hire over the team, which is fantastic for our coverage, but it does mean that, unfortunately, it’s no longer in print. Now, I’ve been in talks to potentially partner with someone to put out a print publication locally. I’ve been in some talks about that. It’s far from a done deal. So there might be a revival of print in some form or fashion somewhere in our coverage area down the road. We’ll have to see how that plays out. It’s not a business that I want to have to learn a lot about and get into. You know, I think the future is clearly online. And so my goal in all this has been to figure out a enduring model for online only local news. I think we’ve figured out a lot, but I don’t have all the answers, and we’re since the acquisition and some of the additional costs we took on, we’re right about at our monthly average revenue, in terms of our expenses, we need to continue to grow from a business standpoint, and that’s what I’m focused on in the months to come. None of this is easy. You know, print, online, it’s all hard.

Q: It’s definitely not easy. But my my question was, I didn’t see the GazetteLeader offered. As a digital offering, either is the coverage area that was served by the GazetteLeader still being covered by by your network?

A: So it covered there were separate additions at one point for Arlington and for Fairfax County, and it was mostly focused on specific parts of Fairfax County, as opposed to the entire county. Long story short, we we were already covering those, and so essentially, we just absorbed the staff and the reporting they were doing, which was, you know, somewhat different than ours. Scott McCaffrey, the editor, the news editor, who came over as part of the deal, he goes to, like every single government meeting there is in Arlington, Fairfax County, and now he’s doing more in Falls Church, which is a little, little tiny city in between. Before I had been content, you know, you made note of our morning notes, where we link out to other news outlets covering news of interest to Arlington and Fairfax County. We do that from from both sides, and I was content to link to his coverage for a long time, while he was doing it. And I do think it’s important to do, but I’m like, as long as Scott’s there, he’s gonna be he’s gonna be on this, like, we can link to his coverage and focus more on, you know, what we can do uniquely well. And now we have both. We have what we were doing before, and we have Scott’s coverage, which was, you know, there was some overlap, but was differentiated. We have his coverage on both our Arlington and Fairfax site. So essentially, all the journalism that they were producing that was unique to that paper, we are now doing online on our sites.

Q: I see on your website that you offer what could be called B to B services, client services to other news outlets. What can you tell us about that?

A: So this is the services that we’re providing to pop fill and to moco show. And one thing that’s pretty clear from from the 15 years of doing this is that every part of this is hard. You know, as the the news side is hard, the sales and advertising side is hard, the membership side is hard, but also the technology bit is not easy, particularly if you have a lot of readership. Now, if you, if you’re just, you know, doing 100,000 page views or less per month, then you can probably, you know, have a bog standard WordPress site on shared hosting and be fine. But our sites, you know, our Arlington site, pop, fill, moco show, they have one, one and a half to 2 million page views per month each. And at that level, you’re talking about enterprise grade hosting, you’re talking about all sorts of little problems that come up that someone needs to fix. And while local news doesn’t scale from an editorial standpoint and sometimes a business standpoint, the technology side certainly scales. And so being on the same WordPress installation, and we have our own custom built WordPress theme that is a little more chronological feed style, as opposed to the more you know, newspaper style home page that’s been in vogue for a while. Being on the same theme allows us to also find some efficiencies in terms of our sales, so that we can go to a regional advertiser and put the same ad unit or the same type of sponsored content with the same call to action button at the at the bottom on any of the sites that we serve.

600-word summary

In a recent conversation, Scott discussed the viability and challenges of for-profit digital-only local news outlets, sharing insights into his business model and how it has evolved. Scott’s project, a for-profit news outlet serving the Northern Virginia region, provides a stark contrast to the growing trend of nonprofit local journalism. While some worry about the sustainability of community journalism funded by philanthropy, Scott believes both nonprofit and for-profit models can coexist, each with their own strengths.

He emphasizes that a for-profit model works well for his community, particularly because it allows for advertising support from local businesses. Despite having some membership revenue, it is a minor part of the income stream. He notes that the dynamics of each community vary, making it difficult to replicate successful models from one area to another. A model that works in a large city like Chicago may not be feasible in a smaller town like Arlington, Virginia, where local donors and advertisers are fewer.

Scott also agrees with Howard Owens’ view that for-profit outlets can sometimes be more independent than nonprofits. He points out that, in his model, no single advertiser makes up a significant portion of the revenue, allowing the news team to operate without undue influence. While nonprofit outlets can be independent as long as they maintain revenue diversification, Scott highlights that dependence on a single donor can raise concerns about editorial independence.

Regarding multimedia efforts, Scott mentions that his team has experimented with podcasts and social media content. While they initially found success with these formats, they decided to focus on reporting, recognizing the limitations of resources in a local, digital-only newsroom. However, they continue to experiment with new formats as part of their strategy to engage their audience.

Scott’s outlet covers a broad range of local news, from restaurant openings to public safety, government meetings, and high school sports. He aims to be the most comprehensive local news source for his community, focusing on stories that are of relevance to the area. This includes a mix of hard news, community updates, and “softer” content like local events. Despite being a small team, Scott believes they have a significant impact because they focus on local reporting and use technology to streamline operations, such as automating social media posts and newsletters.

A significant recent development for Scott’s outlet was the acquisition of the Gazette Leader, a former print newspaper. After absorbing the paper’s staff and digital assets, Scott transitioned it to a fully digital operation. Although the print version was discontinued due to rising costs and declining demand for print ads, the acquired team has greatly enhanced their coverage of Arlington and Fairfax counties. Scott notes that while the Gazette Leader is no longer in print, the expanded team continues to produce local reporting for the digital platforms, filling gaps in coverage.

Scott also touched on his outlet’s B2B services, where they provide technological and advertising solutions to other local news organizations like Popville and MoCo Show. [Note: ChatGPT actually got these two names right, although “Popville” should be rendered as “PoPville.”] With each site receiving over a million page views per month, the technical demands are high, and Scott’s team has developed a custom-built WordPress theme to handle the scale. This collaboration not only enhances the editorial content across these sites but also enables efficiencies in sales and advertising, allowing regional advertisers to reach multiple local outlets through a unified platform.

Overall, Scott’s approach underscores the importance of adaptability and experimentation in the local news space. While the business of local journalism is undoubtedly challenging, he remains focused on creating a sustainable model that balances quality reporting with financial viability, leveraging both innovative technology and a strong connection to the community.

600-word news story

Local Digital News Model Finds Success Amid Nonprofit vs. For-Profit Debate

As community journalism faces financial challenges across the U.S., a growing debate between nonprofit and for-profit business models continues to shape the future of local news. Scott, the owner of a digital-only news outlet in Northern Virginia, offers a unique perspective, arguing that both models can coexist, each with distinct advantages. His outlet, which covers multiple communities in the D.C. metro area, blends news with a revenue-driven approach, demonstrating how for-profit digital journalism can thrive in an increasingly competitive landscape.

While nonprofit news organizations have gained traction in recent years, especially with the backing of philanthropic donations, Scott points out that there are limits to what these sources can achieve, especially in smaller communities. His outlet, which primarily relies on local advertising, has found success by catering to a specific audience and fostering deep local engagement. “The key is understanding your community,” he says. “What works in Arlington, Virginia, won’t necessarily work in other places. That’s why for-profit can thrive in certain areas.”

Scott stresses that the for-profit model allows for greater independence in editorial decisions, citing a perspective shared by Howard Owens of The Batavian. Owens argued that for-profit outlets, with a diversified advertiser base, can maintain editorial freedom by not being beholden to large donors, a concern for nonprofit outlets reliant on a few major philanthropists. “No single advertiser represents more than 1% of our revenue,” Scott notes, explaining that this independence allows them to cover stories without external pressure.

This freedom to cover diverse topics—from hard news like local elections and government meetings to more community-centric stories like restaurant openings and high school football games—is central to Scott’s approach. His site is a digital blend of old-school blogging and comprehensive reporting. With nine full-time staffers and a dedicated crew working remotely, his outlet has managed to serve multiple Northern Virginia communities, despite having a modest newsroom by traditional standards. “We try to be the most comprehensive local news outlet we can be within our resource constraints,” Scott explains.

The outlet has expanded recently through the acquisition of the Gazette Leader, a weekly print publication. After absorbing the editorial team, Scott converted the paper’s content into a digital format, enhancing coverage of Arlington and Fairfax Counties. While the Gazette Leader is no longer printed, Scott sees the acquisition as a step forward for local digital journalism. The transition has allowed his team to bolster coverage with more in-depth reporting from veteran journalists like Scott McCaffrey, who previously covered local government meetings. This has strengthened the outlet’s position as a key player in local news.

In addition to growing coverage, Scott’s outlet offers a unique business model by providing technology services to other news outlets. With a digital infrastructure capable of handling millions of page views, the site helps smaller outlets like Popville and MoCo Show streamline their technology and advertising operations. This collaboration allows for shared advertising and technical resources, creating efficiencies for smaller outlets that might otherwise struggle with the challenges of scaling their digital operations. “As the technology side of digital journalism scales, we can pass on some of those efficiencies to others,” Scott explains.

While Scott’s outlet has proven that digital-only, for-profit local news can succeed, he remains cautious about the future. He is keenly aware of the financial hurdles facing the industry, especially after the costs of acquiring the Gazette Leader. Despite this, he maintains that both nonprofit and for-profit outlets play essential roles in serving their communities. “The most important thing is to keep experimenting, adapting, and making sure you’re meeting the needs of your readers,” he says.

In an era where local news outlets are disappearing, Scott’s model offers a potential path forward, demonstrating that while the challenges are significant, innovation and community focus can still make local, for-profit digital journalism a viable and impactful business.